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Saturday 29th November 2008 at 8:37:10 PM

herothezero1
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 When climbing Trad what is the first piece you go for, passive pro or a cam?

The first several trad routes I had done were all on passive pro. Even though I have some cams now I usually prefer to slot a nut. I can say that a bomber nut comforts me more than a cam does, seeing as how I have whipped on nuts before and have only taken small waist high falls on cams. I also like to save my cams for spots where I need to plug and go.

Heath
 
 


"Bad Luck Sleprock"
 
 
 
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Saturday 29th November 2008 at 10:04:14 PM

bergschrund
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A well-placed cam will provide you a multi-directional first piece, preventing any pieces pulling from the bottom if you were to fall.  Imagine if your belayer is standing 10 feet away from a crack climb, and you have placed 4 nuts in a row.  All of your nuts are bomber for downward pull, but not OUTWARD pull.  You fall, pulling down on the top piece, but the rope is now pulling OUT on the bottom 3 pieces, causing them to pull out of the crack.  Now you only have 1 piece of protection between you and Mother Earth.  Either place the bottom nut or cam to withstand an outward pull or place an opposed piece to prevent the above scenario.
 
 


Baron Von Bergschrund
 
 
 
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Sunday 30th November 2008 at 2:46:53 PM

bradkillough
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Absolutley, Allways equalize the first placement. Good stuff.
 
 


 
 
 
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Sunday 30th November 2008 at 2:48:11 PM

bradkillough
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herothezero1 posted the following on Saturday 29th November 2008
 When climbing Trad what is the first piece you go for, passive pro or a cam?

The first several trad routes I had done were all on passive pro. Even though I have some cams now I usually prefer to slot a nut. I can say that a bomber nut comforts me more than a cam does, seeing as how I have whipped on nuts before and have only taken small waist high falls on cams. I also like to save my cams for spots where I need to plug and go.

Heath


I like passive pro. But I will place cams if need be.
 
 


 
 
 
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Monday 1st December 2008 at 12:51:53 AM

5monkey10
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I think it depends on what your climbing.   Nuts range from 1/4"  thru thin-hands.  Cams generally range from fingers thru fist/OWsizes.,
 
 
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Monday 1st December 2008 at 8:54:44 PM

chilli
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no question in my mind: a multidirectional piece is the first piece (and the easiest way to do that is a well placed cam).  i must say though, higher up, there's nothing that brings much more comfort to my mind than a well slotted nut/hex after a series of cams/tricams in little horizontals and pockets [i guess i'm a little old fashioned like that].
-
heath, you need not fear a whipper on a well-placed cam. you should see this little green alien (yes, i said alien) that caught my friend on a nasty whipper and it still looks just peachy.
 
 
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Monday 1st December 2008 at 11:02:59 PM

herothezero1
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I wasn't really talking about the first peace on the pitch as much as I was general preference.

I extend my cams when needed but I just always wonder if it has walked or something. Now don't get me wrong this isn't all I think about it just crosses my mind when it gets hairy. A good nut is just so reassuring.
 
 
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Tuesday 2nd December 2008 at 12:09:04 AM

bergschrund
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herothezero1 posted the following on Monday 1st December 2008

I wasn't really talking about the first peace on the pitch as much as I was general preference.


Then my answer is whatever fits the best.  There are very obvious nut placements that allow you to place a nut quickly and ensure it is seated, if the crack does not lend itself to nuts I will place a cam and move on.  Whatever piece of pro fits the best will place the quickest, which is often a factor when climbing at your limit.

 
 


Baron Von Bergschrund
 
 
 
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Tuesday 2nd December 2008 at 7:27:54 AM

5monkey10
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I think chilli Has a good reference.  Because Your first 3-4 pieces can go in first.  Then a cordelette can be used to equalize them if In the event of your belay tripping the multi directional anchor would stop the belay from falling.  The belay could also lean back simulating a hanging belay.
 
 
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Tuesday 2nd December 2008 at 10:17:03 AM

bergschrund
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5monkey10 posted the following on Tuesday 2nd December 2008

I think chilli Has a good reference.  Because Your first 3-4 pieces can go in first.  Then a cordelette can be used to equalize them if In the event of your belay tripping the multi directional anchor would stop the belay from falling.  The belay could also lean back simulating a hanging belay.


What are you talking about?  Can't anyone on this site produce a post that has acceptable grammar and spelling?

 
 


Baron Von Bergschrund
 
 
 
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Tuesday 2nd December 2008 at 1:22:02 PM

chilli
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heath: ohhhhh, OK. i'm a dumbass. admittedly i was sitting there thinking, "what the heck is going on with hero? he should know this stuff."  now that you've made it clear enough that a moron could understand, i catch on
so, i was taught that as a general policy, if you have a good opportunity to slot a nut or other passive pro, use that first.  the idea is that (as much as i love a good stopper) cams are generally more versatile and can be placed in more situations (e.g. horizontal cracks without worrying about opposing nuts).  and i can attest to the fact that there have been a couple of times when i said to myself, "damn, i wish i had that blue/orange/purple cam right now" as i look back down the route to it resting comfortably half a pitch below.  on the other hand, traveling with a double set of stoppers, i have never (or not yet) wished that i still had my #5BD (because usually i can get something else to fit in the constriction)
honestly my preference has always been toward passive, but i do have to admit, that where i couldn't fit a hex/nut and expect it to hold, a cam will hold nicely.  that's the glory of variety in your rack.
-
baron: i resant you're stetement abut gremmer on this sight. i tak pridee imny spelin ubilites. ;)
 
 
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Tuesday 2nd December 2008 at 9:10:59 PM

herothezero1
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  I wasn't  asking for advice. I was mearly trying to provoke a conversation about climbing and not whether or not it's cool to smoke weed.


 
 
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Wednesday 3rd December 2008 at 12:12:02 PM

chilli
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sorry. didn't mean to sound like i was "doleing" (sp?) out advice.  just taking the typical explanatory, narrative approach (as i so frequently do with my posts).
-
so the short answer: i'll slot a nut first if it works there.
 
 
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Wednesday 3rd December 2008 at 12:14:37 PM

bradkillough
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Can't we all just get along...............

 
 


 
 
 
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Wednesday 3rd December 2008 at 8:32:09 PM

herothezero1
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      I wasn't agrevated just stating the facts. It just seems its hard to get some good conversations going about climbing or climbing anticdotes around here.
 
 
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