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What is the best way? Come on Chilli I know you have the answer.
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ffemt
Technical Climber
Posts 159
Points 189
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It depends. You want it to be redundant and self equalizing when possible. It's almost like asking what is the best car, bike or rope...
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Don't use climbing rope. Static line works best. Why not use webbing or slings?
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No, no, at a belay station on multi pitch. I know how to build one with an equallette I just know there is a way to do it with your rope. I like using a equallette but I was just looking at other options and I hear it's easy I just am having hard time putting it together and it being equalized and simple.
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dre0028
Belay Test Passer
Posts 4
Points 4
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If you have to build an anchorage with rope, you are definitely much much better off using static rope. This is handy if there is no obvious feature in the rock where you can attach slings or there are no bolts. Even so you can still use slings instead of the rope. What you generally do is fix three sturdy pegs into the ground in a triangle form. If pegs are A, B and C, with the rope you must go from A to B, from B to C and from C to A, starting on a with a double figure of eight and doing a double figure of eight on each peg every time. Its best to leave a bit of length so that in the end you can grab all the ropes and do a figure of eight with all of them. This will be quite bulky but it will ensure the safest possible anchorage, as it is secure if at least one peg and one of the lines is still intact. The probability of course for all the lines to give is zero, given that you have done everything well and the pegs are safely into the ground. We use this type of anchorage for abseiling sessions involving many people, so that it has to be as secure as possible - we dont want anybody getting hurt.
So that is one way you can make an anchorage with a rope, although it might hurt you a rope to do it, as it needs quite a bit of length, but anyways this uses static rope which you will never use to climb. Please reply or something if I havent explained myself well... Climb safe :D
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It's clear but not exactly what I am talking about. Thanks
Heath
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"There's no room for Bluegrass in vulgarity." -Steve Earl
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Try and break down what you want to know, not sure I understand.
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When you are on a multi pitch route and reach your belay station you will either clip bolts or place some pro. From there you have to tie into your anchors, now I understand how to do this with an equallette what I would like to know is how to do it with your rope.
Heath
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"There's no room for Bluegrass in vulgarity." -Steve Earl
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How about tieing in with a clove hitch.
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I thought about that but with a clove you are going to be weighting only one anchor, you will have redundancy but no equalization.
Heath
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"There's no room for Bluegrass in vulgarity." -Steve Earl
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chilli
Technical Climber
Posts 197
Points 197
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haha, hero... amusing. thanks for the vote of confidence.perhaps ill-placed though lol
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sorry i haven't been around much to be at the receiving end of such lovely jokes. been busy with school-work, house-work, work-work, and a little play in there.
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anyway, building your anchor matrix with your rope used to be the norm, but is these days frowned upon due to the fact that is isn't as effectively equalized as using an elaquette or even cordalette. the only place i hear of it being used these days is for fast and light style alpine, and even then it's just as handy (and better) to build your matrix with cordage...
...so this becomes a mostly FYI technique...
1. for a vertical crack, it's easiest, and basically consists of a series of clove hitches that have been pre-equalized to maintain tension which runs to the belayer. then the belay runs off of the belayer (indirect belay).
2. horizontal cracks work much more effectively web-o-lette style. web-o-lette is the one that you'll find most feasibly used with a rope (even though there are other ways) - to do this with your rope, tie a fig-8 on the first anchor point, then bring your rope down and you make your bights, then tie another fig-8 on the last anchor point, then tie those bights into a master point, then hang from that and belay or belay straight from that (or you could just stay as you are if you're not hanging because you're already technically connected)
3. bolts are easy - just tie a knots into bights and tie a thrid for master point and connect there. but good god, man, just use a runner in a sliding-x!  4. with an object like a tree it works just like you would if anchoring in for TR belay - wrap, tie off , and tie the belayer into an inline knot (again, i like the butterfly)
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BUT as you can well see, all of these techniques rely on well done pre-equalizing of your anchor matrix, which is clearly inferior to using a more dynamic system like an elaquette. also, the ways i've mentioned are all indirect belays (with exception of the web-o-lette style system). unless you're unsure of your anchor (which i hope you never are) i would always go with an elaquette or cordalette and a direct belay (also direct belay on the web-o-lette style anchor is not wise if you're questioning the quality of placement). i hope all that makes sense [keep in mind, there are other ways i know i haven't mentioned and others that i don't know. these are just the simplest that i've learned. someone else may have better suggestions.]. i'll try to make a drawing if i can.
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if i remember correctly, john long has some brief descriptions in his anchors 1st ed. book. i know i read it in one of those books. i'll be honest though, i've never had to use the rope to build my anchor matrix and the only times i have used my rope to anchor were at the top or bottom of the climb (as in #4).
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just out of curiousity, why are you trying to anchor with just your rope if your part way up the route? planning on alpine work or is this just in case you lose your all your cord, and all your webbing, and all your runners? [lol]
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chilli
Technical Climber
Posts 197
Points 197
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so the top pic is of two bolts connected thru your rope. simple and easy. you have your master point and you're ready to belay straight form the master point or from the climber's strand if you're clipped into your master point (as text suggests). by the way, since they're bolts, you can just belay straight from the master point, but FYI text is labeled for indirect belay.
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in the bottom pic (pretend that the bolts are pieces you placed -nuts, cams, etc.) you have a fig-8 at each end, then bights in the middle. tie those bights into a master point and voila! (also anchoring yourself into the master point is wise). and you can imagine that you could have 3, 4, or however many you want, but then you get more bights and a bigger knot. as you can also see, you have to pre-equalize to tie your knot. it's not ideal, but it works. in both cases, as i mentioned you COULD belay striaght from the master point, but since it's pre-equalized, that means it could tug on one piece more than the others in the case of a fall, so if possible it's better that you have an indirect belay (by clipping into your master point and belaying off your harness) if you're going to use your rope to build your matrix. if you look up a web-o-lette (really just same as cordalette in form and function), you can see how the idea works.
the text labels are the same for both pics.
hope that helps... now go use an elaquette!  |
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chilli
Technical Climber
Posts 197
Points 197
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ok this is my last pic being added. just for clarification, the pic below is what i was talking about with the cloves in series in a vertical crack. i was taught this by an old climbing instructor who's been in it since before they had cams. the idea is to tie a series of cloves so that (theoretically) all the placements get pulled about evenly. i'll tell you right now, that ideal has not even come close to holding up in testing, so again, you're better off with the ol' cordalette or elaquette.
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I ask only for the sake of knowing, I like the equalette and plan on using it from here on out. I here people complain about the extra weight and I think that is nuts. It all makes good since and I thank you for the extra knowledge. I will try them on my towell bar belay station.
Heath
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"There's no room for Bluegrass in vulgarity." -Steve Earl
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Next topic.
When I use an equallette I clip into my pieces pull down my loops and tie an eight . I noticed this equalizes great with downward pull but if the load shifts from one side or the other it puts all of the load on only one piece. Is the only answer to not shift weight. I looked into the sliding x but if one piece failed you are talking serious extension.
Also if you redirect the belay will you do it from the master point?
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